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My son is doing great...5 months straight...New job.New girlfriend..New life....thank God

Did you recently relapse or previous? It is one of the hardest ones to get off I have relapsed myself twice. And you remember the hell of the withdrawals? But when your relapsing you forget about that. That's why I like this site. It keeps reminding me.

Well I'm glad I never went to those lengths lol I mean spice? Come on maybe if u guys were doing heroin or Coke. My bf would never let me do things ALONE with another guy if he really loves you.

How is ur son today?

U got to stop the ENABELING and get him into some type of treatment,12 step program or yes u will lose him to not spice but eventually heroin. Seems like u have reached out for help here and that's the first step

Thank you moderator!!! 🙂

you are doing the best thing that you can do at this point for him, which is the tough love and addict will use anybody say anything to get their fix? The only thing that truly matters to them is where to get their next drugs. Food is an after thought.rent and electrical is an after thought to. Care of children, unfortunately, is an afterthought. All of that we depend on others to take care of because our main priority is getting high. Yelling at an addict threatening screaming, promising that means nothing. Means to an end. The best thing you can do terrified mother is getting to an alanon group. To help yourself. And the addiction is either going to take them down the rabbit hole. Or they hit the bottom and realize they want or more out of life than that. but just keep in mind. The choice is not yours. The decision is not yours and the consequences are not yours. Good luck

It's easier said than surrendering to the fact that u are an addict.

I have multiple back surgeries and health issues of my own so I have medications at my disposal and I detoxed my son and his gf myself. I reduced what I took of my meds normally so I could get them through detox. I treated them by giving them mucinex D, albuterol breathing treatments, flexeril, Percocet, phenergan, klonopin, pepto bismal and put them on brat diets to help them eat and stay hydrated, the prescription medication I gave both of them for 4 days and got them through the detox, except the breathing treatments and mucinex, they were on those longer to help break up and cough up all the build up in their lungs from the K2 and the brat diets lasted a little longer. They had to force themselves to eat at first. A brat diet for anyone who doesn't know is B-banana, R-rice, A-applesauce, T-toast for the basics, to drink is coffee, no cream, tea or something with electrolytes like Gatorade or pedialyte if Gatorade upsets your stomach. You can also add brothy soups, crackers, oatmeal and pasta with a light broth, like in small amounts, like garlic butter, vegetable broth, chicken broth, watered down tomato based broths, VERY light olive oil with VERY small amount of white vinegar. You get yourself eating some of the other stuff gradually, work up to it. The longer your clean and sober the more you can eat and handle. So I treated it like a flu/pneumonia but was fortunate to be able to have the medications for the violent rage, the severe muscle spasm and the all over body pain as well. I've also been told that people have gone to ER's during symptoms and said they had a severe stomach flu and were given similar medications. But that wasn't here in our state. Our ER will test you for flu or whatever else because of people who have taken advantage of the system here. They'll readily give out methadone or narcan but don't want to help someone withdrawaling from K2. Unless they're a juvenile then they're out into NICU but an adult they won't. And we've had a mass increase in K2 deaths here in the last month from a "bad batch" (they're all bad, duh) but this batch that got around our area was killing people instantly because it was laced with carfentynal (spelling??) it's an elephant tranquilizer. It's also been found in some batches of heroin that killed people instantly. Point is, from my own experience, the klonopin helped with the violent fits of rage, the flexeril helped with the muscle spasms but backophen worked better we found when we ran out of flexeril, the Percocet helped with the pain and the albuterol, mucinex helped with the cough and congestion, the pepto and phenergan help with the nausea and upset stomach. There's also an otc called nauzene that works well for nausea. However, you have to keep in mind that my son and his gf have never abused any other kind of drugs unless you count pot as a drug. Neither of them have ever or even wanted to mess with prescription drug, meth or heroin. So people who have had issues with other addictions may not benefit from how I detoxed my son and his gf. They were just pot smokers who thought they could switch to K2, "legal fake pot" and be able to pass work screenings only to end up addicted very quickly to that extremely dangerous, extremely deadly trash. My son and his gf who are 5 days clean right now after their last relapse believe that it was placed in the US by Alcaida (again spelling??) to try and cause an epidemic and wipe out the American population since when it became legal it was found at first in Arab owned shops. (At least in our area, I can't really speak on that conspiracy theory since I don't know if that's true for other areas). But at least for our area that does make a lot of sense. We now have a couple of free K2/Spice rehabs near here that are available for anyone. But I don't know anything about their detox programs. We're in Kentucky. Good luck and God Bless

Could the moderator of this site please help me with posting my comment?. It didn't show up so I posted again and again. I guess now it's been flagged as spam. I can only see part of my post under the admin tab, it's incomplete. But there's 3 of the same incomplete comments. I don't know how to fix it. It doesn't give me the option to edit it. When I went to help, it said to contact the moderator of the site but I can't find a tab or link for that. How can I get my comment for my experience to post?

You have to make yourself eat baby. Start small, soups, toast, oatmeal and drink plenty of fluids. The longer you're off the more your appetite will come back. Stay strong that stuff will kill you. It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. Read my post about my son. You'll read how it nearly killed him. He's still struggling with the addiction. That garbage will destroy your life. It will take everything from you and then it will take your life. Stay strong and stay away from it. And away from any influences related to it. Good luck and God Bless.

Dear Kristie, read my post, Terrified Mother. Read it to your boyfriend. I go into detail about how it nearly killed my son. It's not a matter of if K2/Spice will kill you it's a matter of when. Some it's slow and some it's faster. But maybe if he hears what my son went through at just 17 years old, how he almost died, I pray it will change your boyfriends mind and he will want to seek help. Tell him how much you love him. Tell him you don't want to wake up next to his dead body. Tell him he's being selfish and he's not just doing this to himself, he's hurting everyone who loves and cares about him. He's putting everyone who loves and cares about him at risk of having to deal with the fear of losing him. And pray, pray pray. Place your hands over him or on him and pray out loud to God for protection and healing, for education and inspiration, for patience, compassion, empathy and love, ask God to take over and trust that God will, rebuke that devil in the name of Jesus. Ask, Believe and Receive. Encourage him, tell him, he's better than this, he deserves better, he can be be and do better. By choosing that lifestyle he's put himself in a prison that only he can release himself from and let him know you will stay by him and support him and love him through it. Be patient and don't enable him. Talk to his family. Share your fears and concerns and make sure they understand that they could possibly be enabling him to continue that lifestyle. Be firm, stand your ground. I hope it works. I hope he takes it to heart. Good Luck and God Bless.

My son and his gf are addicted to K2. I have done everything to try and help them. This started 4 years ago. I recently made the hardest decision of my life. They're out of control and nothing I have done or tried to do for them has worked. So, I cut him off. I love him more than my own life, he's my baby and I would sacrifice myself to save him if I could. But I can't. Until they see the damage for themselves and want to change they're not going to. So I don't do anything for them anymore because it just enables them. No money, no groceries, no buying them anything cause then they take what money they have and go buy the garbage because they could get anything else they needed from me. They take advantage because they know I don't want to see them struggle and do without. So I would provide what they needed in everyday life from toilet paper to gasoline in their vehicle but I was still enabling them. They would come get their everyday needs from me instead of buying it themselves. Telling me things like they didn't have enough money to buy this or that. I cut off the cash long ago and thought I was doing better by filling up the gas tank or buying the groceries or paying this bill or whatever myself rather than give them the money to do it. But no, they would just spend their money on the garbage and use me to pay for everything else so they could buy more garbage. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. I feel like I'm turning my back on my baby. But I've prayed about and I've tried so many other things and nothing has worked. My boy loves his momma and depends on his momma. I've been the one constant in his life that he knows he could count on and knows my love is unconditional. So I'm hoping if he don't have momma to provide whatever then he will see the garbage isn't worth it. Cause now my unconditional love is from a distance. It's not a matter of if that crap will kill you it's a matter of when. It's almost killed him once already but then addicts don't always learn from their mistakes. If they want it and need it so bad then they're going to get it no matter what I say or do, but they won't have any help from me. Am I scared, hell yes!!! But I'm scared either way. But I lose him either way. So better to love him from a distance and give it God than help him and his gf kill themselves. I still tell everyday that I love him and when he's ready to get help he knows where I am. But I can't sit and watch them kill themselves and I certainly won't be a part of it. He's in Gods hands now. I told him, if and when they decided to get it together I would be right there in a heartbeat to help them. But unless they are going to get clean, stay clean and hold down jobs I wouldn't do anything else for them. That garbage kills some faster, some slower. But for most it slowly fills your lungs with a brownish fluid that has a thick motor oil consistency and look. The fluid is a bacteria, it was mistaken for a pneumonia at first, and since it's a type of bacteria built up in the lungs I guess it is a sort of pneumonia but not the kind doctors deal with normally. Anyway, it continues to fill up your lungs with this bacterial fluid and people either A- drown themselves or B- the bacteria spreads into the bloodstream. Either way you die. You develop pluracy which is a hardening of the lungs and its extremely painful. Some people die a brain death from it just from one hit. But the way it nearly killed my son was by the motor oil like fluid built up into one of his lungs (which he was very lucky it was just one and not both) and he was drowning and the bacteria from the fluid spread to his blood stream. He was in ICU on 4 different broad spectrum IV antibiotic rotation every 2 hours. If that hadn't started dissipating the fluid build up in his lungs, they had two other plans in place because he was dying. His red blood cell count was nearly nonexistent and his white was off the charts meaning the bacteria was in his blood stream, had taken over and he was dying, (if I have the blood cell color backwards sorry, one is a sign of bacteria and one is your fighting cells, sometimes I get them mixed up but I think I'm correct saying elevated white is sign of bacteria and lowered red is a sign that there's not enough there to fight off the bacteria, they're dying off and can't keep up) the other 2 plans were to put a tube in his lung and try to drain the bacteria while remaining on the antibiotics and the other was to remove the lung that had the build up while still remaining on the antibiotics. The antibiotics were to help his body fight the bacteria in the bloodstream and the 6 physicians who got together, 2 ICU hospitalists, 2 pulmonary, 2 infectious diseases and 2 internalists, hoped that the very strong broad spectrum antibiotics would dissipate the fluid. So everyday after he had one IV bag of each, he would have a chest CT, oh and he had a pic line, if you don't know, a pic line is an IV that goes straight to your heart so that the medicine is pumped through the bloodstream at the fastest rate possible, but everyday he had a chest CT and everyday they measured the dark mass it showed to see if the antibiotics were having any effect. And Thank You GOD, they did. At first it was minimal just centimeters at a time but then that continued to increase. He spent 2 1/2 weeks in one hospital in ICU, was transferred to another hospital ICU and placed in quarantine for a week, a containment unit that's normally used for people with tuberculosis, its oxygen controlled and everything. We had to where full cover ups, gowns, masks, bonnets, booties and gloves just to be in the room with him and no more than 3 people at a time, him and 2 visitors because of the oxygen amount being controlled, until the 6 physicians came up with a solution on how to treat this new unidentifiable pneumonia is what they called it, then he spent another 3 weeks in regular ICU and went home with the pic line in and was still given the antibiotics here at home by me for another 2 weeks. And even after all of that he went back to smoking it. The gf was there the whole time he went through it and saw it but she smokes it again too. I tried to get them into a rehab once, they were turned away because the rehab said "oh it just spice, we only have outpatient programs for spice" I was furious!!! I brought them home locked them in my sons room and detoxed them myself using my own prescription drugs of pain pills, muscle relaxers and benzodiazepines. At first they were violent, there's holes in the walls, the room destroyed, things thrown all over and things broken, I used the benzodiazepines to combat the violent fits of rage, then there was the sickness, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite, for that I used the same as you would for the flu, I gave them mucinex D, pepto, lists of Gatorade and soup, with that was all over body pain and severe all over muscle spams which is when I gave them the muscle relaxers and pain pills. I've had 5 back surgeries and a slew of health problems so I had all this medication here on hand and went without it and took the bare minimum, went through some withdrawals myself because I wanted to make sure I had enough medication for them. After a little over a week, I got them both through it. But they went back to smoking it. So all I can do now is hope and pray that what I'm doing now is the right thing. I don't know what else to do. I found a couple different rehabs now that will do inpatient because some places have learned that people do need help with detoxification but unless they're willing to go that's useless. We do have a law here that's called Casey's Law where anyone can petition the court to get an addict help but you have to pay all the court fees, judges fees, deputy fees, paperwork fees, it's a great concept, the judge takes over and forces the addict into rehab and monitors their progress and they stay until a physician says they're okay to re-enter society but for poor people or heck even middle class people we can't afford it. I even looked into taking a second mortgage out on my home just to help my son and his girlfriend and I still can't afford it. So Casey's Law, that allows anyone to petition the court on behalf of an addict relation or not, is only beneficial for the rich. Our family believes what I am doing is the right thing. I want to believe it is the right thing. But there is fear. I'm terrified. But that's there either way. Someone please tell me what you think. Is what I'm doing right?

Marlene it was probably bacteria caused from the K2. Read my post about my son. It explains what I mean. Best of luck to you.

My son and his gf are addicted to K2. I have done everything to try and help them. This started 4 years ago. I recently made the hardest decision of my life. They're out of control and nothing I have done or tried to do for them has worked. So, I cut him off. I love him more than my own life, he's my baby and I would sacrifice myself to save him if I could. But I can't. Until they see the damage for themselves and want to change they're not going to. So I don't do anything for them anymore because it just enables them. No money, no groceries, no buying them anything cause then they take what money they have and go buy the garbage because they could get anything else they needed from me. They take advantage because they know I don't want to see them struggle and do without. So I would provide what they needed in everyday life from toilet paper to gasoline in their vehicle but I was still enabling them. They would come get their everyday needs from me instead of buying it themselves. Telling me things like they didn't have enough money to buy this or that. I cut off the cash long ago and thought I was doing better by filling up the gas tank or buying the groceries or paying this bill or whatever myself rather than give them the money to do it. But no, they would just spend their money on the garbage and use me to pay for everything else so they could buy more garbage. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. I feel like I'm turning my back on my baby. But I've prayed about and I've tried so many other things and nothing has worked. My boy loves his momma and depends on his momma. I've been the one constant in his life that he knows he could count on and knows my love is unconditional. So I'm hoping if he don't have momma to provide whatever then he will see the garbage isn't worth it. Cause now my unconditional love is from a distance. It's not a matter of if that crap will kill you it's a matter of when. It's almost killed him once already but then addicts don't always learn from their mistakes. If they want it and need it so bad then they're going to get it no matter what I say or do, but they won't have any help from me. Am I scared, hell yes!!! But I'm scared either way. But I lose him either way. So better to love him from a distance and give it God than help him and his gf kill themselves. I still tell everyday that I love him and when he's ready to get help he knows where I am. But I can't sit and watch them kill themselves and I certainly won't be a part of it. He's in Gods hands now. I told him, if and when they decided to get it together I would be right there in a heartbeat to help them. But unless they are going to get clean, stay clean and hold down jobs I wouldn't do anything else for them. That garbage kills some faster, some slower. But for most it slowly fills your lungs with a brownish fluid that has a thick motor oil consistency and look. The fluid is a bacteria, it was mistaken for a pneumonia at first, and since it's a type of bacteria built up in the lungs I guess it is a sort of pneumonia but not the kind doctors deal with normally. Anyway, it continues to fill up your lungs with this bacterial fluid and people either A- drown themselves or B- the bacteria spreads into the bloodstream. Either way you die. You develop pluracy which is a hardening of the lungs and its extremely painful. Some people die a brain death from it just from one hit. But the way it nearly killed my son was by the motor oil like fluid built up into one of his lungs (which he was very lucky it was just one and not both) and he was drowning and the bacteria from the fluid spread to his blood stream. He was in ICU on 4 different broad spectrum IV antibiotic rotation every 2 hours. If that hadn't started dissipating the fluid build up in his lungs, they had two other plans in place because he was dying. His red blood cell count was nearly nonexistent and his white was off the charts meaning the bacteria was in his blood stream, had taken over and he was dying, (if I have the blood cell color backwards sorry, one is a sign of bacteria and one is your fighting cells, sometimes I get them mixed up but I think I'm correct saying elevated white is sign of bacteria and lowered red is a sign that there's not enough there to fight off the bacteria, they're dying off and can't keep up) the other 2 plans were to put a tube in his lung and try to drain the bacteria while remaining on the antibiotics and the other was to remove the lung that had the build up while still remaining on the antibiotics. The antibiotics were to help his body fight the bacteria in the bloodstream and the 6 physicians who got together, 2 ICU hospitalists, 2 pulmonary, 2 infectious diseases and 2 internalists, hoped that the very strong broad spectrum antibiotics would dissipate the fluid. So everyday after he had one IV bag of each, he would have a chest CT, oh and he had a pic line, if you don't know, a pic line is an IV that goes straight to your heart so that the medicine is pumped through the bloodstream at the fastest rate possible, but everyday he had a chest CT and everyday they measured the dark mass it showed to see if the antibiotics were having any effect. And Thank You GOD, they did. At first it was minimal just centimeters at a time but then that continued to increase. He spent 2 1/2 weeks in one hospital in ICU, was transferred to another hospital ICU and placed in quarantine for a week, a containment unit that's normally used for people with tuberculosis, its oxygen controlled and everything. We had to where full cover ups, gowns, masks, bonnets, booties and gloves just to be in the room with him and no more than 3 people at a time, him and 2 visitors because of the oxygen amount being controlled, until the 6 physicians came up with a solution on how to treat this new unidentifiable pneumonia is what they called it, then he spent another 3 weeks in regular ICU and went home with the pic line in and was still given the antibiotics here at home by me for another 2 weeks. And even after all of that he went back to smoking it. The gf was there the whole time he went through it and saw it but she smokes it again too. I tried to get them into a rehab once, they were turned away because the rehab said "oh it just spice, we only have outpatient programs for spice" I was furious!!! I brought them home locked them in my sons room and detoxed them myself using my own prescription drugs of pain pills, muscle relaxers and benzodiazepines. At first they were violent, there's holes in the walls, the room destroyed, things thrown all over and things broken, I used the benzodiazepines to combat the violent fits of rage, then there was the sickness, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite, for that I used the same as you would for the flu, I gave them mucinex D, pepto, lists of Gatorade and soup, with that was all over body pain and severe all over muscle spams which is when I gave them the muscle relaxers and pain pills. I've had 5 back surgeries and a slew of health problems so I had all this medication here on hand and went without it and took the bare minimum, went through some withdrawals myself because I wanted to make sure I had enough medication for them. After a little over a week, I got them both through it. But they went back to smoking it. So all I can do now is hope and pray that what I'm doing now is the right thing. I don't know what else to do. I found a couple different rehabs now that will do inpatient because some places have learned that people do need help with detoxification but unless they're willing to go that's useless. We do have a law here that's called Casey's Law where anyone can petition the court to get an addict help but you have to pay all the court fees, judges fees, deputy fees, paperwork fees, it's a great concept, the judge takes over and forces the addict into rehab and monitors their progress and they stay until a physician says they're okay to re-enter society but for poor people or heck even middle class people we can't afford it. I even looked into taking a second mortgage out on my home just to help my son and his girlfriend and I still can't afford it. So Casey's Law, that allows anyone to petition the court on behalf of an addict relation or not, is only beneficial for the rich. Our family believes what I am doing is the right thing. I want to believe it is the right thing. But there is fear. I'm terrified. But that's there either way. Someone please tell me what you think. Is what I'm doing right?

I went thru pretty much the same. Only my bf's dealer liked me so it started out just trading myself to him for spice. I just thought of it as doing a favor for a friend who was doing a favor me, to help me justify it. So at first it was just with him, later though he decided to start inviting friends over when he knew I was going to be showing up that night. Glad you were able to break the cycle before it killed u, we are lucky to be here to tell others to stay away from it.

You may never be exactly as the same as before but trust me you will be much better than you were when you were addicted. You have to stop blaming yourself. I blamed myself and kept dwelling on terrible things I did to get more spice until I realized I have to just accept that as stuff that happened. You may want to see a doctor if you haven't already. Good luck!

That brought back memories of a couple of terrible experiences I had... hallucinating while getting high with our dealer when he insisted I go alone to pick it up because we were so far in debt to him... sometimes not even sure what I was doing or with who when I was that high at his place, Sometimes thinking it was ten or more guys, who knows what was really happening sometimes when it was like that. Never ever ever again. We are lucky to be alive, anyone who survives this hell.

Hope you made it thru Lea!!!

Cough, wired looking and acting alternating with crashing at odd times (passing out), dark circles under my eyes, lost weight...

I almost replied to your first post about permanent changes after being addicted for a long time, but I was too embarrassed to mention my changes until I read this post. My bf were both addicted for 2 years, both lost our jobs, sold stuff to buy more. My bf started stealing stuff and got caught, we were so desperate, had borrowed money and stolen from our friends and family until no one would help anymore. Our dealer would only front us more if I went over to his place alone to get it. We knew what that meant but I did it anyway. At first my bf said no way but after the withdrawal sickness started he begged me to go. I knew his dealer liked me and he was happy to front some in exchange for me doing whatever he wanted. That turned into a regular event at least weekly and later more. My love life with my bf had gone to hell anyway and I think I started actually liking our dealer after a while, almost looking forward to going to score some synthetic and paying for it with favors. I started trying to clean up and look nice b4 going to see him, although it was hard to cover up how bad I looked then. About the time it had turned into sort of a comfortable routine (if that ever could), one night I went over and a friend of his was there. It had all been planned around me coming over and I ended up getting high with them and letting them take full advantage of the situation. Then, that became a regular occurrence... different friends of his just happened to be there whenever I stopped by to score and expecting that I would do whatever they wanted. Which I always did so I could bring home what my BF was waiting for. Several of his friends were black and I even started looking forward to those visits too. I now find that I have some of the same effects that I read about in girls who have been victims of human trafficking. My love life is totally dysfunctional, I am much more submissive, and fantasize about almost all the black men I see. I feel like I will leave my bf soon and can't even imagine having a normal love life or becoming a married soccer mom some day like I always imagined. I confuse the cravings for the drugs with cravings for those situations that I got into to keep the drug supply flowing. Half the time I think I need therapy and the other half I just feel like going out to a bar and meeting some guys. I'm a mess and seriously wonder if I can ever go back to being the person I was before I became an addict. Thanks for sharing that you have some of the same issues and I hope more will be able to know they are not alone in this.

I relapsed a lot trying to quit, two times where I got deeper inti it than before, or at least the withdrawal was much worse each time. But I did it and I know you can too.

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My bf had a "mini-stroke" that sent him to the ER. He swore he would stop smoking that day, but by five hours later was smoking again. I was doing it with him so was not in a very good position to help him stop. We have been clean for 4 months but had two relapses b4 that.

That is what I had to go thru too... but you can do it! Don't give up!